23. Raised by a Father with Down Syndrome – Our Interview with Sader Issa


Hello and welcome to theIf We Knew Then podcast, I’m Stephen Saux

And I’m Lori Saux.

Today we’re joined by Sader Issa from Syria.

He is a delightful young man whose story you may be familiar with as his father has down syndrome this interview is life changing for me as a mom it brought so much joy just meeting him and talking to him and learning about his life and then on another level I’ll tell you as a parent he justified one of the things that very early on before it needed to be an issue with lamb that we were you know we were told lamb would most likely never have a family if he could be on his own so I love that my morning began with speaking with him and just when we finished I had I had a different perspective on everything and one of the great things is designed we are constantly trying to open our minds we are constantly working on making changes and changing perception and perspective and it’s such a gift when your own perspective and perception is changed and opened and widened and let’s get to it let’s share this beautiful conversation with %HESITATION wonderful young man Saturday thank you so much for joining us today thank you for having me we’re very excited thank you for making time for us I know you’re you’re staying very busy our problem you know it’s because we’re now having college exams all this stuff because of the quarantine was three months ago and now we have exams but what I have thank you bye our problem that’s wonderful you’re able to help people yeah or you can I started but maybe could you tell us a little bit more about yourself my name is Slavisa and I come from Syria I was born and raised here in zero in a small town it’s cold outside %HESITATION in in how my government and the local population is about fifteen hundred people that’s it so it’s a very small town and people here %HESITATION we we know each other so it’s a very peaceful very kind environment three to be born into I’m also one to a father with down syndrome I recently realized that it is the first known story in a world wide open a doctor or a medicine or dentistry student won’t go far with down syndrome so that’s very exciting for we’re we’re living here at our simple life feelings here we are living in a safe down here in Syria and you know things are going well with us hopefully you know the general situation here in Zurich can get much better and we hope it happens soon you know because many people unfortunately live in A. M. regions when where they have you know war complex bomb beings and all this stuff so we don’t beast for old seven Old World War well when I heard your story and reached out to you that was one of my concerns with you is just that where you live and making sure that that you’re safe so good to hear that yeah we we’ve never had any war conflict a region thank god we were suffering just from the general thing that happening like economical blockade travel %HESITATION bargains here and all this stuff but %HESITATION in the in more complex and all the stuff we we thank god we we did not suffer from any of this stuff well I don’t know if you’ve been told but we can tell you from the United States and the people that that we’ve grown up with here that we support you and your country completely thank you so much now we want peace yeah I just wanna say your store your personal story is going to bring peace to a lot of people because being raised by a father with down syndrome you know when we have a child or we find out we’re pregnant and we get that diagnosis a lot of negatives are given to us a lot of they tell us everything that our child will never do and when I heard that your father had down syndrome I just had so many questions for you because you’re just you’re taking and what they tell us and your shattering map but then also I want to hear about your life because that’s another thing you’re you’re you’ve obviously lived a great life and you have everything that’s instilled in you in the foundation that you’re coming from is beautiful and just knowing that it brings joy and peace to a lot of parents hearts who are told that these are things that your child will never do right off the bat yeah maybe get tell us a little bit about your dad well of course you know my father is called job easier here’s a forty five year old man with down syndrome he’s a good father he’s a good husband he has been working for over twenty five years in the same factory it’s a local we wind actually and he’s well respected in his society you know especially after our story was shared or why you know he became you know like a famous person here this year so everyone will come to buy products from the factory that he works and they are they always recognize him I always like to say hi to him and just know more about him and a lot of these people get surprised when they you know talk to him and correct then because they realize that he is a smart guy he’s a funny guy you know he’s very social and that’s something that they don’t know much about people down syndrome and I hope to be able one day to show this unique character this very special mindset to oldest world you know I hope one day to be able to share his character with the old war in general hopefully hopefully we will do it in future as I said he’s a very smart guy he’s a funny guy he’s a good husband as a parent and a family leader you know and %HESITATION and hopefully hopefully you will get the chance to meet him one day %HESITATION that would be wonderful to be wonderful as if you ever want to do a podcast with him I we would love that we’d love to talk to him yeah he speaks only Arabic L. I will have to translate him but you know it’s not a problem for me now at at work you know eight PM here and he’s still at work no he usually comes around ten PM it comes at the you know you know for a couple of hours and he returns to his work but that’s only in the in the summer in the winter he’s always at home he works only for five or six hours because there was no it’s not the week season here is here so there’s no much work to do hopefully we will we can do such thing our problem when did you find out that your father had down syndrome and and how did you find out well and I think I think I was about ten or eleven years old I started to realize that he is different is different from other banks you differ from other people I didn’t you know quite understand how and why it was different I just knew that there was something different from the other parents different from the other people that you know I didn’t ask questions about because you know here in Syria or in in the tradition or in the culture is in the general culture it’s not appropriate to ask such questions you know so you have always to find your answers in it in one way or another so after a while we started learning about down syndrome in school you know first of all the naming was different than me so I didn’t know down syndrome as this name because common people hearings here still repair to down syndrome as long as the co down’s syndrome was a new names he was the name of the international name of my father’s case and you know the name that I can reach and Suresh my question that I have in my mind so you know in school we got very simple information about downs and as you said earlier we get only the things that the person will bet with down syndrome will not be able to do in the future or may have to suffer from in the future and we don’t get anything about the positive side of dance into all the different abilities that they have you know at first it was a bit sad you know you know about all the problems that my father may have to face in the in the future or it may be facing get white now but you know after a while all these negative information’s just started to fade in the background you know I just see my funny father might help people either and my strong body you know he used to be very muscular when he was younger sell sell all these negative ideas started to fade in the background and I just started to understand more about his character more about god %HESITATION more about my father as a person not about a a diagnosis that announcing diagnoses and you know it took some time but at the end I started to to realize who was a really him you know not the the diagnosis not the things that we we learned in the books you know that they they won T. be able to do this and they want to do that you know all these negative ideas just crave it and he wouldn’t just a he returned to be just my father you know my lovely father without any kind of label so and I don’t I don’t like to label him but now since we are advocating for down syndrome I %HESITATION state I am the son of a public dancing about I don’t quite like it you know I’m the I’m the son of John he’s he’s I don’t like to always put labels on him but the L. ed due to the work that you’re doing right now I have to always say that I am I have bogged down but you know %HESITATION before we we do all this the reports and articles all the stuff we we didn’t even mention this just now we we we just talking about that’s kind of how we feel in our household too that we we do talk we feel like we talk about it a lot because we like you said %HESITATION advocates but %HESITATION Liam who is ten our son is ten has an older sister Sophia who’s two years older and it just wasn’t anything that she really questioned and then once we got some answers it was just kind of there and that was it it because like you said if you want to label somebody it’s it’s it’s not who they are totally yeah I mean you don’t want to put those limits yeah you don’t want any of those negative like you said the negative information to then put any limits on on anyone and you said ET and you had some questions and and %HESITATION that you didn’t really talk to your father but have you ever talk to your father about about down syndrome no no actually I don’t as I said it’s not something you know comfortable speak with S. W. S. specially in the in our culture and our culture in general it’s not you know let’s say appropriate detail about such things with the person who has this the effect of this problem or this diagnosis we think of it as something like you know to just not question these people about these topics because not all people are comfortable with sharing these information and may some people may you know you know just startling their call openness or just start how can I say just start you know %HESITATION think different about their selves and things that we are always have these questions in my mind about them so we try to not put other people in that such we are awkward situations that’s it but the I got my answer %HESITATION at the end it’s not always right well it’s not always a good to deal with things with this kind of attitude you know and it’s not the only problem and the Arabic culture you know there’s money in many other problems that need fixing and this one of them that we we are not always honest with the with the other people about all the questions in my mind so you know I think that that is something that could have been fixed if we you know just had a better idea about do you think that’s how your your father grew up as a as a young man and I’m a boy I guess do you think that he was talked to about down syndrome or is that something that would have been shied away with as well yeah yes five away of course unless you know he was you know interacted with assembly you know because as head people here in general we’re proud to dancing to people as well Mongols or model of them and you know as a word it’s not very acceptable hearings here and people are not always Frank about or not always honest about what they have in mind sure when they are meeting with people dancing or any other like most of the %HESITATION I think it’s totally was tried and tried with solder I think I think a good thing that came from that by not speaking those negatives and imposing those boundaries on your father he wasn’t told that he could never do all these things and he’s he’s doing all of the things that are are written on a piece of paper that say these are things that your child will never do so I don’t know if you covered this but how did how did it feel when you realize your father had down syndrome and how has that feeling changed if it has changed well at the beginning of the third was a bit sad because I knew more about the problems that he might have in the future like you know diabetes and heart problems always star but you know it didn’t change anything inside of me I didn’t feel ashamed of them I didn’t feel that I don’t love them you know he was always my friend show me when I was you know just a little kid he used to always play would be used to always stay around me and I will because I’m at college I don’t have much time to spend with them but at that time he was he was just my friend it was it was you know always playing with me always HM we may be you be useful moments beautiful stories and you know it didn’t change %HESITATION my feelings towards them I just as I said I just felt a bit sad because he might have some problems in the future and all the others have these negative ideas just faded in the background and %HESITATION lists sad feeling it just turn normal and now it and turn to too much love in every appreciation to towards him because now I know with that %HESITATION there’s says certain problems that he might be having and even though he is working hard he is trying to spend most of his time at work you just %HESITATION be able to spend on this family and give us our normal lives so after you know are you realize and I after I became older and after I got a better under understanding of this situation it became you know a respectful feelings towards and very loving feelings towards them because some people think of them as someone not capable of doing all this stuff and even though he did Hey he did them all so that the scores gives me much look much respect towards them and you know I don’t think that this feelings will ever change or or anything in life whether it was a diagnosis or anything all I am and I’m I’m sorry about you know I’m getting a bit confused and English speaking but I don’t speak English all the time so I hope you you get my that my ideas totally each you speak wonderful English is that commonplace in Syria to learn English no no no not not at all you know questions here you know you can find people speaking English and other Arabic countries like Lebanon United United Arab Emirates all these countries but especially in Syria the only spoken language is Arabic and even a even in the university we we learned dentistry we learn medicine and willing to learn all these skills in in Arabic and it I think it’s one of the very few Arab countries that do so so and not not many people speak English at all not many people understand everything about English very few people speak English and a few people you know are good at speaking English with a with a with no Arabic accent thing well her biggest such a beautiful language with such amazing history very good history but you know people have recently are going way way too extreme not in religious aspect but you know %HESITATION racist aspect all these you know bad start and the Arab countries you you can find you know a one R. and with the market the end with the a good human rights and with a good you know economical low economical aspect unless you’re speaking about the bill countries where they have all the all the all the stuff the Arabic history is very which is very good but you know the last generations have ordered all have just did some horrible things that put this you know great great plan in such a bad situation but in publicly or economically and in all the the aspect there’s a lot of suffering but what I was gonna say was with with this beautiful language that you have that you’ve grown up with but being able to now speak very well in English your well your father and your story can be can reach so many more people that that’s what we are trying to do you know the first video was all in Arabic I don’t know if you watch the video or just read the article about our story but we made our first video interview and it was all in Arabic but it was translated to English with English subtitles yeah I saw the video with subtitles and and then read an article yeah we’re flying to or the next video a two you know for me to be speaking English and my parents with the Arabic with the English subtitles you know I think it’s good as I said it good tweet share more people are cool to go back to your family dynamic your father of being so close to you and when you were a boy what was your family dynamic like you’re an only child I believe maybe you could tell us how your mother and father Matt and what their relationships like back in the days in Syria you know was not common for men and women to to date and your goal all by themselves so especially in in that small side like it sounds little towns or little villages so there in one way or another the the guy who wants to introduced himself to this lady have defined no proper way to introduce himself to %HESITATION to color more about his feelings towards her and his brother he loves her or not or whether he likes it or not so for my father and mother you know both of them are from different towns so I believe they met first when my father was visiting my aunt my aunt’s husband it was a judge here in Syria and he he had this family who was doing and %HESITATION case with him since he was a judge and the family matter you know that my father and my mother and I both of them actually have intellectual problems and I don’t know why most of the people think that %HESITATION my mother don’t have any kind of disability and she is in a live I I provide this for like she is M. marrying this little baby in some some some unfortunately some people describe it as at this rate like a full grown woman and with the old has her intellectual abilities are marrying someone with some intellectual disabilities they see it as a sports station I think this sport is he exploiting yeah %HESITATION but that’s not the case you know both my parents have intellectual disabilities my my mother has a slight the %HESITATION mental delay but you know it’s not the most noticeable until you closely interact with her you know but they are intellectually at the same you know at the same level they are very simple people but very kind very loving and very you know have a such a strong determination a lot though and I met by coincidence at as I said at my aunt’s house when my mother’s family was you know doing some business but my my ons the husband the two found these start to to discuss whether it’s the you know appropriate because you know people here especially people with disabilities can decide by themselves whether they want to get married to their partners or or what is they want to do anything any formal and informal thing here is here so the two families had to discuss with marriage and you know %HESITATION my father mother had had to get a more arranged %HESITATION date value between them you know my mother can it can come to my aunt’s house when my father is there or my father can go to my mother’s house when they’re you know families there and they can you know just sit with each other and discuss about their %HESITATION their lives about their jobs and all this stuff you know I don’t know if you get the general idea okay you know but that’s how things or marriages used to be done here no I think that something in a in the United States we’ve lost but if you go back a few years you can go to where there was a real courtship there were steps involved and it was tightly monitored by by the parents well I think when you have changed your you know era we’re are %HESITATION now more westernised we now we don’t have you know it’s not acceptable anymore to have a charges at that time okay that’s just global not not growing up with these two beautiful people you described and I think of parents roles in their children’s lives and there’s discipline involved and I was just curious about how you were disciplined as a child you talk about how this loving family and you lived with your parents in their own home or or how did that how did that work yeah yeah we have our own home here in our town and my parents were very protective you know me when I was looking at so I became a bit shy you know as a child you know and it did it didn’t take much to order one you know it’s just the outlook from that my mother or my father or just simple work to stop doing this thing it does not get a stop you know playing with the stuff or or anything like that and that’s it you know I didn’t I was not fortunately I was not very not B. as a as a little kid but you know that’s it you know I was a bit shy it took just work or look from them to stop what whatever I was doing the what a beautifully normal life you had and have and that’s that’s really a great message to send to people that here’s to people that may have some difficulties but they’re they’re just given the right and then successfully have their own home and raise a child and just like any typical person Sattar when you got a little bit older you know kids tend to try to push the boundaries a little better our tests the limits did you did you do that and no no no no I realize that as I said I was a bit shy you know as they get even when I got a bit older you know I didn’t intend to you know try all these whiskies whisky games that the kids in my age do so no I didn’t have that this kind of experiment and you had a relationship with your parents parents your grandparents no no unfortunately I answered this question my grandparents have passed away before I was born %HESITATION %HESITATION what I have what I know about them is from you know the stories that my my parents have with them you know they always tell me that they were nice with them that day he %HESITATION you know tried all their best to provide the best opportunities for my father in his life and you know they were not always successful because things were very hard at that time you know like my father is that doesn’t know how to read and write because there was no special education or teachers in general do not know how to cope with the people of south central or intellectual disabilities so who’s not able to learn how to read and write and that was something that broke my grandmother’s heart you know she she wanted him to be a please just be able to resemble stop and help waiting all we just kept simple stock at school but he he was not able to so unfortunately %HESITATION but they they tried to even though he was not able to read and write they try to work and provide him as a little kid and tried to you know HM the the a different abilities that you will need to be having in the future like when he first got his job you know my one mother used to always go to the place where he works always try to see if he is doing this thing in a good way or not and always strive to do asking his colleagues to help them with what is that he’s doing and now thank god he he teaches a new worker out to work on the machines and how to do things in this factory so yeah they were they were too fat the successful in this aspect and they’re all what I know about my my grandfather that I I look a lot like him you know they they always tell me that you look exactly like real bad although I hope I I had the chance to meet them but unfortunately I didn’t I didn’t yeah well you had mentioned earlier that your dad did go through a little bit of bullying which probably is a worldwide problem is that something that you confronted as well as a child well yeah of course but I didn’t I didn’t tell my and my parents about it you know because I didn’t want to make them you know feel that they are not protecting me enough you know I just want didn’t want to give them this feeling I just three secret please talk to us and different kinds of sports like bodybuilding like boxing at a very small age actually and I became physically and mentally L. ready to defend myself and you know thank god I didn’t have to use this strength against anyone because you know bullies are cowards you know they don’t do anything harmful when they see that the other person is capable of defending himself hello thank god I was capable of defending myself both physically mentally and I didn’t have any problems after after this from from any any anyone your strength in your family strength is something that’s so impressive because it comes from such a beautiful peaceful loving place and yet I should have said this right at the beginning but I’m with your culture and and I if if we ask anything that you feel uncomfortable answering or overstepping the boundary please please tell us because I don’t want to put you in an uncomfortable situation or impose on you because you’re being so gracious with your time and your story which is is beautiful what did your parents relationship teach you as I said earlier you know and they are people who who are you know labeled as someone who or not who is not capable of doing things like getting married getting you know a job getting a house you know making a family in general and they were able to do so they were able to complete each other you know %HESITATION Michael and my mother and has now with some hearing problems so my father always gives her a a slight you know description of what’s going on or what the people are speaking you know they they complete each each other you know there is some aspect that my mother can do better than my father and some aspect where they my father can do it better than my mother I learned that we should not you know label anyone or we and we should not you know judge anyone based on their condition or based on their you know like knows this because you know first of all and this might make us look stupid you know when when these people whose home we have judged as people who are not capable of doing that surprises and do you know the things better better than than us and these people who are you know labeled as this able people can do some things better than people who are not cold disabled the event date if they so called normal people that taught me to to respect you know every human being regardless of their condition mentally physically or condition and there were religious aspect or bale brace aspect or any aspect just look to people as human beings just don’t judge don’t put a label on and on anyone and you know that has helped me a lot in my life you know and I think that it will help you more it’s so wonderful talking to you you’re such a wonderful person to talk to can you just tell us how far along you are in dentistry studying and and what your future plans are well I have one more year to graduate as a dentist you know my future plans are not very clear you know because the the current situation here in Syria the economical collapse you cannot tell what will happen next year if you’re insecure and you cannot tell how you will be going to be able to to start your own job and start you know their own clinic which we as dentists do we have to to you know prepare our clinic we have to no get all the equipment that we need and what you don’t know how you will be able to do such things but you know my current plans are after graduation I will have to practice two more years of dentistry in a small town before I was I will be eight be able to to open Mike thanks in a large city I will have to to work with another doctor doctor who has his private clinic for two years or so then I will have to find a way to to start my own bank might store start my own %HESITATION you know business and that’s it maybe you know as experienced as and as as Christians in the Middle East although most of us try to immigrate try to move to another country because you know our civil rights here and in in these countries are not always protected and I didn’t know if I told you earlier but most of my uncles and aunts live in the United States in Transylvania we’re the only members of the family who doesn’t have an American citizenship so I think I will have to also try to the the immigration to our country because it’s easier and it’s much safer to start a job and a career and of the country and of course I will I will have to %HESITATION you know not to go by myself I have I will have to take my parents with me if this plan was planned happen but you know it’s not it’s not clear still not clear what will happen the next one or two years here in Syria Saturn do you have a favorite childhood memory of course I have many favorite childhood memory but %HESITATION one of my favorites was when I’d finished first weighed in albeit interior they give us you know like a report or and or a paper and with that all my a or a grades in in in different classes in the first grade and all my grades were straight eight I don’t have any these are these epic and this paper on the order this report we give them we add to our parents to see how what we did in school all this stuff and when I gave the %HESITATION this paper to my balance you know thank Y. deal they were happy to see their kids you know getting the education that they were not able to get you know both my parents don’t know how to read and write they were proud to see their only child as a little kid who is doing well at school with which is I think at that stage is the the most thing that the parents concentrate is that their kid is doing good in school Hey how’s a good good friends all this stuff so they were crying happy buying and they were proud and I think I remembered that that my youth violence you know as my father with this paper on his chest as the back towards him you know %HESITATION so the grades are show to do it to the people in front of him and walked in the in our neighborhood to show the people that with my son you know because this is my kid and this is great in school look at him he is doing well and that is our kid and he was you know so proud you know and that feeling you know what it was one of the best feelings that I have ever experienced in my life I was happy to see them proud I was happy to see them smiling and happy about my my small accomplishment at that at that age and so I decided to always give Bendis with emotions always give them this a moment of pride that’s what I tried to do since that that time you know I’ve done a very good job and then in school you know and in ninth grade we have a like a what we call it a okay not there and like wait the diploma before we we go to high school and you know at as the first grade I was the the first in my class you know and they were again very problem very happy and I love I love as I said I love this feeling I love to give them this experience and yet here we are today you know as I said earlier is studying dentistry here and here is something that has a high social respect and very high social value so now they feel even more proud that their their smoke it is now and doctor and will become a doctor who treats others you know this %HESITATION varies in a lovely memory in my first grade when I was six years old that was that the %HESITATION the moment that shape and sculpt what what I will be doing in the future you know and that was the moment that kept me in the way that I am and by now you know that was the moment that kept me doing the good things and staying away from the bad things you know and I don’t think that I will be here today if I didn’t have these ballots you know I have a balance I I don’t think I will be here today you know doing doing what I do you know I don’t I don’t know you know what I will be doing well it sounds like they were quite an inspiration Teo informing your life your story is an inspiration thank you thank you so much I’m I’m I’m trying to keep it in like an interviewing headspace to ask you questions but it’s I I just I love your story and I love I love every every aspect and approach of the the respect and the and the mutual respect and dignity and just just how inspiring and you know I hesitate to say normal because I I honestly think that kind of love and foundation and support is something the world needs more of and I I wish it was something that was that was normal that everybody received that because you see these great benefits that come from just love thank you for for sharing that are there any other like words of wisdom did your dad ever sit you down for talking give you words of wisdom or anything that you that %HESITATION you held on to I hold on to his actions more than you know your you know he is a man of action I and I believe that most of people down syndrome are just like him you know %HESITATION we the the so called normal people tend to speak more than we do actually and they are the quite the opposite you know I learned about honesty when I see him speaking tool to others who are trying to to hide their mistakes you know in many many funny situations some of his colleagues or friends or so try to you know when he when they do something you know like get try to you know just how I did it wrong or not shared with the the manager or the loss of their %HESITATION the work but my father who has witnessed this action cannot hold you know and the wife goes to this to this guy and tell them why in the eyes that he has done you know something not good and tells the boss that he is this guy has done something not good and that teaches you about honesty that teaches you bad Intel and lies to people it’s not something good you know and it’s just one small the lesson that I’ve learned from him you know you can learn about forgiveness from the from them you know again he he might get the %HESITATION bothered from a colleague of pen or a friend then and the he comes home you know that may be a bit angry but he he cannot wait until the next day to go to this person who have bothered him to say that it will give him and he don’t want any problems you don’t like actually to have any kind of negative relationships with any any and any other person in his life that teaches us about forgiveness and as I said there was many many lessons that I’ve learned from his actions and I’ve witnessed him that you know doing so %HESITATION I don’t know if I can you know just with a simple list of the things that I’ve learned but they are not they are a lot you know I cannot even describe them enough in in in my words but it was such an amazing balance such an amazing inspiration my life and he will always will be thank you for for sharing that with us and so heartfelt our podcast is called if we knew then and so we we like to ask guests a lot of times if there’s something that you know now that you wish you knew in your past well a I am I am very much happy and satisfied about my life so my only knows about this and that the if I knew that a sharing our story could help many families around the world you know give them inspiration and give them you know how old they are little kids in the future and you know %HESITATION change some of the outdated outdated ideas about down syndrome then I would be more of a you know certainly shared my story and much much the time that you know will I wouldn’t you know wait until until this time to show it you know I would have shared in a long time ago do we know how most people possible you know change these outdated ideas about god that many people still have until this day and that’s that’s my own about Sattar so wonderful talking to you thank you thank you so much and again sorry about my English skills and I hope all the leave the listeners get my ideas just the way I feel I want them to be thank you so much for having me crystal clear yeah I want you to know that you’re hearing is skills are are perfect and and your message your message is beautiful and definitely came across very clear and we appreciate we appreciate you sharing that and %HESITATION as a mom and advocate a I’ve learned a lot from you even you know a lot of what I speak over Liam as far as he is more than a diagnosis and and it can sometimes be frustrating having to always speak that but what I think I’ve learned from you is one the importance of that for being an advocate but also to not speak it because it’s where it matters which is in our home and in Liam’s life it doesn’t matter yeah yeah yeah and I wish him have a bright future you know I wish you all the best in life thank you so much for having me and hopefully in the future we will be you know able to even S. change more and help more people hopefully with the with the help of with people like you and again thank you so much for having me please personally tell your mom and dad for us that we %HESITATION we’re thinking of them where where we had a great time talking you were proud of their son and we’re really just so blessed to have you in our lives even for just this little bit of time thank you thank you so much I will more I will definitely you know tell them about and thank you so much.

Please follow us on Twitter @ifweknewthenPOD you can drop us a line on our Facebook page @ifweknewthenPOD or visit our website https://www.IfWeKnewThen.com to send us an email with questions and comments. You can join our mailing list there and get alerts of future podcast episodes. Thank you again and we look forward to you joining us on the next episode of IF WE KNEW THEN.

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