41. Behavior: A Conversation with Kyle Davis of McRory Pediatrics

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the If We Knew Then Podcast I’m Stephen Saux.

And I’m Lori Saux

And today we’re joined by Kyle Davis a Behaviorist from Corey pediatrics we’ve known him for a few years he worked with Liam and he is one of a few therapists or we’re gonna have on for McCurry behavior is a big big topic and this is a big big episode and we are so excited to be able to bring the issue because we asked a lot of questions from IT peas to in home therapy to what to look for and we got some really great answers so we hope you’re going to enjoy this conversation we hope it brings you a little peace and ease and knowledge because knowledge is power so here’s our good friend Kyle Davis Kyle it’s so wonderful to have you on the podcast it’s been a quick minute since I’ve seen you guys the yellows for listeners will you just tell them a little bit about yourself so my name is Kyle Davis I know this wonderful family because I was one of their sons providers I am a certified B. C. B. a board certified behavior analysts I have a bachelor’s degree in history from Purdue University teaching certificate from western governors university %HESITATION my masters in education from Arizona State University and then the credentials of the CDA I have worked in ADA or a little over five years now and I have recently moved to California in August of two thousand sixteen and I’ve loved it ever since then how did you become a service provider what motivated you to do this so prior to working in a BA I was a teacher in the state of Indiana where I grew up and get my undergrad work for about a year or two and one of the class it was a very private small Montessori school total agreement with like a hundred kids all around from first to sixth grade the math teacher across the hall %HESITATION her son has an autism diagnosis and she actually found it I’m I’m from Columbus Indiana she founded the Columbus autism network she was really big in autism making it known and she would bring her son out could be in a very small family oriented school and he and I just got to know each other and she was like I think you’re really good with them and suggested I just take a look into this and that was the beginning of the end I guess you can say because that that me on this journey tore up a BA and I’ve never looked back if you could tell our listeners what a behavioral Estes and what you do so yeah it’s a little there’s a few different facets of that but to answer your first question a behaviorist addresses challenging behaviors I’m not only within the autism community but also with then you know the down syndrome oppositional defiant disorder is like really any child that has what we would consider maladaptive are non functional behaviors we come and we identify what the barriers are what the skills need to be that are more age appropriate and then we develop treatment plans and core coordination collaboration with an in home studying with the parents and the you know all the other providers of services in the home now as I met you guys that was still a school setting and so it’s a little bit different for a school setting every paperless works not as Eric and I have autism diagnosis is but still not just have deficits in B. hate terms of maladaptive behaviors like %HESITATION loping they’re heading there running out the room that kind of stuff but we make sure that they are able to access the curriculum is that’s our big keyboardist so we figure out if they’re off task how to make them more on task if they are you know again displaying aggression behaviors how to reduce those and of course if they are having social challenges and how to integrate the more into their hearers %HESITATION environment so that kind of stuff ADA stands for applied behavior analysis that’s like the big overarching reach of things that’s what my degree is really for is for polite behavior analysis and then it’s the through that degree that allowed me to get that BC gave the board certified behavior analyst certificate so A. B. A. is something that’s kind of that is thrown around to parents as far as different services that are out there can you tell us when they should start seeking a BA and what does that look like I and I feel like when a child is younger they stay in home like you it said and then does it transition into school or do they do they exist at the same can they exist at the same time good question so just gonna begin taking it piece by piece like you said I am not certified to do this but like a %HESITATION a licensed psychiatrist we’ll be able to diagnose an autism diagnosis about the age of three like around the age of three years old is when we are really able to make that diagnosis now you can start to see deficits and language skills around the age of eighteen months and the agency that you guys are familiar with that I work with we do have some programs designed for children at the age of eighteen months so just kind of catch them up to speed and then about the time of three that’s when they would go to like a regional center our psychiatrist and get that diagnosis if they get that diagnosis and a little bit easier path to get the ABA services because ABA services in Hong I find it through insurance departments like Kaiser Magellan that kind of stuff and so my supervisor has really taught me to look at is ABA is like a prescription and so you need to have some kind of not necessarily does the that you need to have an element you need to have a reason for us to prescribe you that ADA so you can start a day as young as three years of age and then the oldest client that I’ve ever worked with was back in the center in Indiana and he was twenty two years of age now out here in California it’s a little bit different and insurance is that all I have also changed that they they won’t give us like a golden ticket anymore like they do want to start to look at like okay even do in this program for ex number years when is the end gonna happen now we can’t give them a guaranteed date but they do want us to be striving towards what we call a transition to more doctors skills and that usually happens around the ages of thirteen fourteen when if we’ve done our job is behave was right they aren’t running out they aren’t screaming they aren’t having those challenging behaviors anymore and then you guys as parents are able to address the behavioral stuff but they still have skill deficits maybe it’s like they don’t know how to do their laundry they don’t know how to you know make a transaction and %HESITATION a restaurant or something like that those are considered more adaptive skills and the ABA doesn’t really cover that again that’s for the insurance sources they’re like that’s a different providers so yeah but then to kind of go off on your thing yes there are certainly opportunities for eighty eight to provide services in Hong as well as in school in fact I have two clients right now that I understand browser for in the school setting and also in the home environment too because it kind of going back to the main point it’s different funding sources with the school is funded through the district through the in home services it’s funded through insurance agencies yeah what are the benefits of in home the benefits of in home are obviously it’s in the child’s most natural environment like if you I’ve worked in a clinic and I’ve also done in home and both have their benefits but again when you’re in a clinic it’s much more clinical obviously but in the home you’re working with like okay mom’s making Danner dad’s doing some work you know siblings are running around it’s much more natural for the child and then it’s also much more likely that we can have that here and buy in because that’s something that we do strive for is to get parents to also participate in the session if you know you’re doing a clinic based session I’ve seen it before where parents are just like here’s my kid I’ll be back in like two three hours you know do what you do but in the home parents really can escape the it’s like you we we really need you to be part of this training because again we view ourselves as just someone that’s giving you guys the parents were trying to power you so that we don’t want to be here for the rest of your child’s last year like we we love your family’s needs love being a part of them but we give you our services are somewhat temporary we don’t want your child to always need someone there that can provide them with strategies and problems you guys as their parents that’s your role as parents to and so we come in there to give you guys those beneficial tools as well to the back I think is the biggest beneficial is that parents are there and then it’s a much more natural environment to so I just wanna clarify because you had said something eighteen months to three years like you can assess at eighteen months I’m not a parent so but what I’ve heard from is that parents at the age of eighteen months can start to see like especially those older siblings involved like okay Mikey was walking at this age my child is not so down here on the age of eighteen months is when you start to see that developmental delay at the college around the age of three is when we try and diagnose it as early as possible of course if a child for whatever reason it’s been diagnosed major three does not mean that they’re never going to get diagnosed I’ve seen children that don’t get diagnosed until they’re eleven twelve years old it’s just because they weren’t having as big delays they were hiding it they were mask you know if we were to say and so they didn’t get the diagnosis to later on in life eighteen months is when you start to really look at to see the child and then we work with that in our clinic to trying you know do intensive ABA therapy to get them to where they need to be by the age of three because of that the age of three is when they do start to get diagnosed if a child has autism they start to see differences that about eighteen months and then parents can starters support but then around three years is when they would receive probably the funding and the insurance and everything right but for down syndrome since it’s you know usually within the first couple weeks of birth what would that path look like for someone with down syndrome okay I think it would still apply around that three year cut off of being able to get services I agree with you yeah a good friend of my mom’s her child has down’s than your own I’ve known her since she was like twenty now she’s forty fifty so it is pretty apparent at birth like you said that you know there is a down syndrome diagnosis but I think insurance companies are like let’s see if there is a delay verses like they’re just gonna have a little bit of sound and sight there’s a difference to the unlike okay there just a little bit delayed verses like they need that intensive ABA therapy because again insurances have changed over the recent years where they used to kind of like I said be like okay you have a diagnose the housing a delay here’s a forty hour week program we’re gonna find it all the way it’s great go with that and now they’re really looking at is like is this truly medically necessary so yeah if there is if you got a good B. C. B. a and a good support system in place I can kind of argue that to the insurance provider then I would say the earliest starting point would still be around that three years of age well we didn’t pursue a be a services until school and I didn’t even know a be a technical name of it I was I was heard in need do we wanna maybe look what toward an eight what would be the difference so if parents are going into and I. E. P. and they’re trying to figure out what supports they want for their children and we’re looking for behavior because behavior is really something that sometimes they’ll use to determine placement and they’ll use that as something in the corner when a child the other day as to when you say when will the school will or the school system the school district so when a parent will go into an IP and and a lot of times will go in there blind like we don’t have all of the information in the lingo down so sometimes will be denied placement or they’ll will be you know maybe push towards a different placement by the school district based upon behavior but in I. E. P. is the placement would be in the least restrictive environment with support to access the curriculum so ABA falls underneath that support right correct if a child can function in the classroom with that support access in the curriculum that’s what what we’re going for can you is there a day or let me ask you is there a difference between an eight and an ABA when we when I hear eight I think you know someone has been supplied by Ellie the the school district now if you’re wanting some and that has eighty eight background then the term has to be I I and I think you guys are familiar with that term yeah I would be someone like your child one on one support and B. I. stands for behavior intervention instructor so that’s like the boots on the ground is like I say the one on one with the child and then my role would be the B. I. D. behavior intervention director yeah so that’s the fundamental difference is that no disrespect again the district when I think of eight it’s just someone that they’ve gotten that maybe work there twenty thirty years and it’s great but doesn’t necessarily always have an eighty eight background if you’re looking for something eighty eight background you’re really looking for that B. I. slash the ID support an aide can help in a classroom like a teacher’s aide is basically what an aide as they can help big help in the classroom and they support the teacher and it’s and it’s academically more so correctly because the FBI doesn’t really support academically it’s for behavior yes good point yeah I’m aid I depending on what their function in the classroom could be someone that supports the child academically could be some that’s grading papers I get into bigger brief burst of the B. I that really is one on one laser focused on that child providing them with the behavior strategies under the supervision of that B. I. D. yes a good point there were yeah because in an aid can also help other children and eight can help other children than just you know taking it farther and aid can %HESITATION take the children to the bathroom that’s something that the B. I can’t do like again they’re just there to deal solely with behaviors and so yeah eight could be like and I know one of like get to like is that political here but I’ve heard of some age being assigned to like two or three kids in the classroom where is again that be I heard the ID he which you guys know the legal document says that someone’s always there just for someone so purposes they’re not to write any other support you know unless like you know the child is eating lunch with them and they’re trying to facilitate some social goals but they’re not responsible for the actions of the other child we’re really just there to provide that one on one support and and also with the RBI in a B. ID that relationship is more like I know for our experience wait when like when you are the B. ID and then also with our new B. ID we can communicate with you so there’s more of an open communication there is employed as far as with goals and you know to be honest we’ve always felt like the team that you you are on his behavior team is the team that actually sees him Eckley and pushes him towards his potential more so and also for more terminology I was thought of the the B. I was a non public aid if that if that makes sense like I felt like we could have more easily gotten aid from the district and then we haven’t had a push to say I wanted in and out and in in our I remember that that terminology non public aid which then became the B. I. and B. ID that we got which was someone that was from outside of the district that that would come on the campus yeah I give your listeners again more about it vocabulary definition here yeah non public agency we refer to as the NPA and so I don’t know exactly your guises process but yeah the default position is to always kind of offered the L. A. U. S. D. eight first because it’s just stops or standard protocol for the district yeah so it let’s say you guys went with the district eight and then let’s say for whatever reason you guys didn’t know that that was appropriate then then the next step in the hierarchy would be to go get that in P. a non public agency aid as I’m sure you guys saw it the fight but it can be done but also they can it our listeners and going into an IP you can ask for right off the bat an MPA and you know it’s our personal experience it’s been better communication it’s been better support you know there are there a few times when maybe someone’s absent but there’s communication whereas sometimes somebody could not be there in aid could not be there and your child might not having it all day well to be quite honest to I but I’ve had times where I don’t really have an issue with if R. B. I. is going to help pass out papers let’s say is going to maybe do some some little bit oaks class work because it is also nice to have you know that’s an adult in the class and all the students see %HESITATION it’s nice to just make things a little more smooth where it’s not like well that person is just for that kid well isn’t that a thing isn’t that a confidentiality thing where it’s not necessary see it’s different for lamb obviously because his his diagnosis makes it a little bit more apparent that that person is right there for him but I recall and and and a classroom once where somebody identified should we do a gift for so and so’s aid and there was this terrible terrible got upset parents were look there and that is your that’s confidentiality that and and and of course for Steve and I were like white yeah well we could be secret but also our eight Liam’s eight is sitting next to him the entire Friday so I mean it’s pretty obvious ease that she or whoever they need is is for that child but I didn’t mind that there was some little bit of class work maybe that was gonna be first on to R. B. I. but I felt like that if I had the district aid then that person was available to the teacher to do what you gotta do a lot more and and then not maybe focus on the child as much to go to your question Lori about like isn’t that what we call like a violation of the happen to like and I don’t know the acronym what hit the stands for maybe you guys you’re like I know so many I couldn’t do that when I’m just lost weight but to your point yes it should be somewhat confidential about who the child is working for but then it also kind of falls back on to the comfort level of the parents too because I’m like you I haven’t seen it in my time but there I’ve heard from a fellow %HESITATION co workers that yes some parents are like we don’t want anyone to know like it needs to be hush hush and you know we do strive for that we do strive to respect the wishes of the parents but if you know let’s say little Johnny is having a rough day and that one on one the I. is always the person going there to support the kid then kids are smart and they’re going to figure out like %HESITATION that person is here Johnny it’s just like I said we don’t live in a bubble so it is kind of a tricky situation and then of course to your son eight have been with him for a number of years to I’m sure I already figured out what they are there for to say like right yeah I wish they were here for him we know it and so it’s kind of yeah it’s in theory should be kept confidential and we do all strive for that but it doesn’t always work out that way for ex number reasons so hippa is the health insurance portability and accountability act of nineteen ninety six as a federal law that requires the creation of national standards to protect sensitive patient health information from being disclosed without the patient’s consent or knowledge that goes even beyond having an aide that that would that would go across the board and just and but for parents to bring that up sometimes in classrooms teachers will say things out loud or or talk and and just know that you do have a lot behind you saying that that is is not allowed and shouldn’t occur and like you said to your point where it doesn’t just cover that one on one it covers like the whole range of medical confidentiality like diabetes status like all kinds of side that is covered under so we were taught so we got on a little bit of attention finding the definite the definition between the the difference between asking for an aide and asking for a B. I. in the B. idea in those services and I just want to clarify for the listeners that that is something going into your I. E. P. one it’s going to benefit you when maybe they’re trying to say because of behavior that your child shouldn’t be in an inclusive classroom with his peers because that’s always the goal now there are some sometimes parents preferred as a smaller classroom or special day class %HESITATION and that’s definitely your private but if that isn’t something that you want and you feel like you’re being pushed to remember that it’s with supports and that support would include a B. I. and B. I. D. team end if they’re then suggesting because a lot of times the district will come in with what the path they want you to go down and there is suggesting an aide you can request the B. I. and B. I. D. if they say let’s try it out with the aid first and see how it goes you can you can hold your ground and obviously you’re probably gonna have a little bit of a fight ahead of you but it’s doable and it gets done and if if that’s the path you want to go down then that’s the path to go down I never feel comfortable in any situation when someone says let’s just try it my way first and then we’ll see how it goes I mean it could be in and so many different ways I just as you okay great you get I’ve kinda locked in I mean because you know in your mind you’re signed a document here that’s a legal document so your your sign and I mean to to actually go through and say Hey you know after two months I realize this isn’t working at all you have to get a new meeting together you have to get everyone together and I mean we can back to times are to hand and especially with kids where you know you don’t get that time back in it and at a certain but there’s certain areas that are just the most beneficial as far as input and so many things can happen and and that in that time frame L. man you wait two months and that’s I mean the school is not long enough not to bad not that does it all the like you said if you do that route and if that’s the route that you’re have that faith in the district and you’re like okay I’ll try but then if you change your mind it is often sometimes just more work to get everybody back into the neighborhood to clear their schedules and then make and then it’s like wool okay well maybe we change or just a little bit like let’s just make sure we do it right the first time I do your point like you said the school year is on long enough but it’s also like we want to make sure we’re doing it right the beginning so we don’t have to keep meeting over and over again you guys are great I love to see you often like we don’t well and I also say that you know once you you backpedal like that then you’re probably going to be required to have a new assessment done and that’s going to push a couple of months and then before you know what it is really you know half the years gone and it’s not as simple as just try this out for a couple weeks or whatever yeah exactly very good point very good point yeah I’ve seen that too yeah to encourage parents behaviors are behaviors and wait you know even as adults we know that if we have a behavior we just we as adults change our behaviors two things that are healthier more conducive for our life and so it is accessible but we don’t want we don’t want to create something to where now we have to undo as much as we can as much as we can we don’t want to put ourselves in that situation degree you had made a nice point Kyle and that we had said this before podcast before that all of our therapies in our in home therapies we when Liam was young you know before three actually you know we had a couple therapy today we use that as teaching moments for us and you mentioned that that is the goal especially in home but because we can communicate with you so well and find out details in school that we may not have as a parent that isn’t attending school your child you know you’re you’re kind of relying on the school or or your child may be really young at this point take tell you these details and how many children are gonna tell on themselves he had no that nice any temporal children aren’t getting it you know it take two years later they say yeah I did that so it’s really great to have you guys there where now we can get some information and say oh and I could pick your brain what one would you recommend I do in this situation and I can even take that home and in school work at home so that is just something that I did want to let go before we moved on other things you know I was curious about is you had mentioned first of all when you say Mau what is it without a doubt this maladaptive can you define that for our listeners now I’ve got to behavior is just what you might call in layman’s terms bad behaviors you know aggression shouting out screaming even the scripting where you know the child just repeating what they heard and a TV show or movie or song hello man which he defined as running away that kind of stuff those are what we would consider maladaptive behaviors and home now for school it’s different because he does still apply but you might also have like the child is not beginning their work right away you know they’re not remaining on task to not having appropriate social interactions so maladaptive behaviors are again quote unquote those bad behaviors or anything that doesn’t really relate to the school curriculum that they’re expected to be doing here’s a big thing and I think behaviors can be overwhelming because you see a behavior and my experiences band that it carries a lot more weight than maybe if you have a typical child they all of a sudden you’re you’re rain goes to it a dark dark place of this is for ever and what will this lead to an I have failed and what does this mean and will it stop and there’s there’s so many places that we go as parents can can you talk to parents about that just about those behaviors and and maybe even encourage parents to stay away from the word bad behaviors you know bad they as far as because I think parents carry that weight parents carry the way of now my child is doing all of these things where as you know to be honest some of that is a lot of times how I deal with one of Liam’s behaviors it was I’ll take a minute to think what if what would I do if Sophia did that did so if you ever do this now most of the times of FIA’s done it so can you speak upon that just for just for the parents just for some comfort and guidance absolutely at your point that’s something that we don’t use like in our terminology we don’t state that behaviors that’s what we do stay the term maladaptive it is a bit more technical but it really doesn’t it does take away that connotation of like these are bad it’s just not what is most appropriate for the situation are the most even I would say to functional like if you’re asking a child to read the assignment and they’re over there scripting their story are running out of room that’s not a functional behavior that you’re asking for them that you you’re asking them to read the assignment and so that’s why we don’t use that term really except for when we’re trying to break it down really get the understanding I do see your point or yeah we don’t like the term bad behavior because to us behavior is everything like talking to you as a behavior while working across the room with the behavior behavior analysts use the term this might make you guys laugh we use the term advanced test if a dead man can do it then it’s not a behavior so anything that a dead man can’t do without fear of it if you’re like well he’s laying down there we are dead men can do that so that’s not really a behavior like yeah sure you sitting there that’s great that’s fine only call so yeah myself too when I first got it into eighty eight I did think of behavior as like that bad thing like oh they’re acting out a really behavior is just any kind of action are like response in the environment can you talk a little bit about what benefits a child so if I see I know there was a time when Liam would actually wake up in the middle of the night and go to the front door and he opened it a couple times or a couple times he couldn’t read he couldn’t reach really high and I would find him like crying at the front door because I don’t know if he was dreaming whatever he was doing I guess that would be considered attempted eloping but I don’t think it was with the intention of running away it was just something that was frightening thank goodness we have the dead bolt right and that he what it couldn’t reach as high as our locks go yeah so it was really frightening to us and you know we had that point where we thought what does this mean how long will it last is he in danger okay so one thing that I always advise parents or any type of behavior is to first through a lot is there a biological component to it so like if the child is not necessarily eating all the time maybe there’s something gastrointestinal going on so it kind of sounds like a cop out to some parents sometimes but really you need to make sure that there’s nothing biologically happening because you know we’re instituting what we would call a treatment like to make the P. but they are physically having pain to eat them we’re just calling that sophomore car so I always say let’s rule out any kind of biological stuff if there is no biological function then we can of course address that and the main thing that we try and do as the hay realist your point of like how do we go about addressing this is that would be Hey realist operate under four main principles of behavior therefore what we call functions that behavior and you can use the acronym eats ES four escape the child wants to escape the demand they want to run away they’re hating you because they know they hit you you’re not going to make them do the assignment or whatever the task is a is for tensions though they’re screaming and they’re running away because they want your attention and of course they’re gonna get it up there doing that kind of stuff that’s a really hard one judge us she is for access to tangible they want something from you they want that cookie they want their TV show they want their toy that they have and then as its first self stimulatory and those are more again up for like other words a stereotypical autism behaviors to hand flapping the scripting that kind of stuff those are the stereotypical behavior so they’re doing it I say because it gives them against some sort of regulation they may be doing the hand clapping because they’re excited they’re happy that sort of stuff so once you identify what the function of the behavior is then you have to figure out what they’re replacing behaviorist somewhere Johnny is heading me because he wants my attention I will teach Johnny to tap me on the shoulder to stay Hey Kyle I want something for M. U. and they’re doing a forest gate then we blocked them from escape and make them complete the demand and then they can ask for a break which is the more functional and appropriate way to get that escape again if you guys are doing work with your kids and one of them is like Hey I need take a break you’re going to give them that break but if they’re gonna hit you I know you guys as parents you’re like that’s not going to get anything from us like we’re having a good time here I guess so yeah because when you talk about the self stimulatory actions parents get really self conscious about that I know that you know when Liam was younger before and that would be because you know his speech wasn’t completely and it was coming then maybe he’d make a noise or his house because it’s easier because other people don’t understand him but can you give parents some guidance or support because sometimes behaviors especially out in public and people stare or it’s embarrassing and then you have to deal with the emotion of I’m embarrassed by my child and that’s that’s real and parents carry guilt because of that and so can we talk about that and and bring some ease so again going off and like I said about the replacing behavior so we have to identify and that one’s a little bit harder to identify what the child is getting out of it because you know depending on their %HESITATION not as though the cognitive ability but their vocalist bility we could ask them like why do you do this %HESITATION because I’m happy I’m happy okay then here’s are some alternatives that you can do you can say I am happy you can jump up and down you can you know give them that all trying to replace some behavior and then reinforced that by giving them lots of attention like the phrase like showing them that you’re really happy with the end date the child because reinforcer is like really you are the one they give them all the good stuff you give them the boot the shelter toys whatever they want really so you’ve given that craze will give them the motivation to be like and I have a child right now I find I don’t have a child I have a plan right now that is engaging that stereotypical behavior and we kind of just you know put his hand down and given the replacing behavior like I’m excited and now he does it and he looks at us when he’s like a starter put his hand up a little bit like he’s gonna do it and then he catches himself is so adorable he stakes and how like look at him like I’m like yes you are and knows that he’s getting reinforcements right and it is again depending on the function maybe it’s because you know %HESITATION it’s too loud and then so against your point Laurie it is somewhat of an embarrassing situation but maybe that’s how Disney’s headphones when they’re out in public and you know that’s a different conversation to have but it’s also a teaching moment for the community of like my child has need of like it’s too loud for them you may not think it’s too loud but they are saying it stood up for them and I if the parents are gonna do what I can to make sure that they feel supported so I mean it kind of goes back to like again you’re not why they’re engaging in that behavior if it is a still stereotypical behavior it’s still serving up on shin for that child it’s just really hard to figure out what the function of a lot of times because that’s how may not even have the ability to express why they’re doing it so and I ate I again to your listeners Laurie I definitely sympathize with you guys I know that it’s in those moments your child is acting up and you’re just going the way the world but know that for them if there’s something that there’s some reason that they’re doing it we just have to figure out why and then a good behavior list will definitely give you guys jockeys I’m making it a more appropriate replacing behavior reset so yeah we we feel for you guys it’s impossible not to work with the family the not to develop love and respect for them too so we don’t want you guys to feel like %HESITATION I really need to run a target but you know my husband at work right now so I can go because my son might have a moment like we don’t want that for you guys we want you to be able to live your lives as traditionally I don’t know because they normally but that’s traditionally have also like if you need to run to the store to grab a note go with go to the store to grab a mug and take your child with you I know that we’re gonna work with them on getting them to be able to regulate because that’s really what it is to is to regulate their emotions to well you know it’s feels like such a social stigma you know and so I think that’s legitimate for parents but also I think we can also take a little breath and know that there’s things I see and Liam that he does on his own time he likes to do weekly he plays with these three bears you like so just keep kind of juggling them let them throw in the air a little bit let him fall he likes to take Texas cards and sort them you like to take cards and kind of put into his hands and let them fall into the ground these are things that are suited for him for whatever reason while maybe he’s watching something or listen or read even one is reading a book will do do it sometimes and to me I can go back to remember an improv there were people that were just at an improv they would slap their legs although they don’t do their hands it’s laughter legs left and that was and and they don’t even know they’re doing %HESITATION making a noise and we’d be like will work where cattle the being distracted here by your slapping your here legs and it was give you some comfort in a nervous situation but you know maybe work on that but also people you know I always rub their hands together or push their glasses up with their finger I mean of course classes can fall down people adjust their glasses all the time it’s just a it’s a it’s a movement people talk with their hands these are things that are socially allowed because we’re kind of used to it but I think it’s it’s the same vein is this comfort thing over you was a regulation and it just takes on so much more weight I think first of all like you said that’s the best way to figure out if it is a self stimulatory behavior as will the child do it when there is no one watching them because like you said we’ve brought out it’s not first gate it’s not to get anything is it for attention so I’ve never done it but I’ve seen cases where they will literally put a child in like and close room and it’s like well the child do this behavior when no one is watching it’s a good point they’re like yeah that’s really like you said is it the job doing it when no one’s around and it really is just to kind of sell students thought that knocks you get intentions not to get access to anything so and in mind I don’t know if you guys ever noticed like that sometimes I just like to pop my neck like it’s just like given that feels good to me and I know that I do in situations I didn’t honestly Laurie two minutes ago I you guys are talking and I just think it’s just something that obviously you guys are here watching but I just do it and again it feels good to me like I like to feel my neck I know that’s probably really weird to your listeners but I’d like to feel my neck out sometimes and the good ones like all yeah that’s all right and the people are looking like sorry I talk about my neck with these are typical things you know this is typical things that people do and and we can get so hard on ourselves as parents of give children with disabilities especially you know what for us children with down syndrome where you you get this overly like I’m like a microscope on yourself a one hundred percent yeah and especially like is that you do not even like in the downtown you’re but if your child has autism and they are engaging those stereotypical behaviors at high rates the use of the microscope is definitely under those parents like let’s just be honest like if your child is scripting %HESITATION doing hand flapping constantly you definitely feel like you have a target on your back and again to your audience Laurie we have the hair was we see that and we want you to know that we are here to support you during those times too absolutely now let me ask you a question for some advice for the non parent grandparent the teacher at the friend the ant the person in the grocery store when they witnessed these behaviors what is the most supportive thing they can do because I know that people get afraid to look %HESITATION they look away they don’t say anything they get uncomfortable and awkward or dell say something totally inappropriate so what advice would you give but that parents can even give when people ask them what should what should I do how should I respond and that’s are gonna say honestly the best advice if you’re again if you’re just like in the grocery store walking by and you see a child having you know a moment whether it’s they’re having a tantrum meltdown or they’re engaging the behaviors is to if it is something that is pretty severe like they are having that can promote understaffed apparently are you okay because again the focus seems to go on to the child and the parents there to support the child but who’s supporting the parent during that moment like are you okay as parents like are you feeling supported do you need help is there someone I can call like M. nine times out of ten I’m sure the parents we like I’ve got this you know they’ve been doing this for ex number years I know what strategies are but I think that is too and I think like you said to Laurie are devoted to go today what’s grabbing our attention in the sense of child like they’re having that’s not done and like I said after having this behavior because of our tension staring at them and saying like what up had child that isn’t like whatever you’re just giving that child what they want so now you’ve made it a hundred times worse than that Erin so I would just recommend just checking in with the payment like are you okay like do you and what supports do you need what can I do and the parent again maybe like I’m okay thank you for asking there’s also just gonna be like that parents really really appreciative that you at least take the time to not be the one that’s like %HESITATION that’s really awkward embarrassing I’m gonna walk away like they’re they’re used to that let’s just again be honest they’re used to those people that just walk by and don’t see the situation and even if you’re not going to be helpful like if the parents like I got this you at least acknowledge that like Hey I’m here to support you and I know cancer like thank you so so much that I can remember you oppose the parent I just walked by and that would be a pretty severe thing that you win this I mean obviously there’s things that you see different movements are different you know different things it just would say weren’t typical of the typical person now it’s easy with Liam and and and people what doesn’t that that’s a it’s a physical thing that that most people can identify with that at at the and still I like the thought of asking the parents say you need anything yes can I help you or are I see you or even just make eye contact I know for me making eye contact and saying you you’re okay because if I don’t think the U. okay is R. G. do you have a grat grasp on this I think it’s you know just on a human level how you doing mom use you identifying you see and I mean I know for me going out into public when there might be a behavior or especially when lam’s speech was coming and so different sounds would come out and I eat I would be so self conscious and parents and kids they stare and if just want somebody would have just even just looked in my eyes just to make that contact of you know that human contact it didn’t even have to be words just a human egg knowledge meant that they cuddles popping his neck no one’s looking at him like it’s the end of the world right it’s it’s you make that human contact because we all have things that we do in their habits it’s just the eyes are on our child because that they have a disability and so it becomes something so much more when if those the people who are staring would just turn that lands around and look into their life they I’m sure they could find something that they we can all find all the time I have bought a list %HESITATION one thing I would like to just kind of give your little listeners again some more advice is to do that check and bring new curly because again at that you don’t know what’s going on like you’re walking by you’re seeing that shot in that moment but again if it’s for that attention seeking upon at any kind of reaction whether it’s even just like all my god are you OK it’s very comforting to the parent with that child and also gotten some attention for their behavior so just doing well if if I was having a child and I’m seeing some new challenging behaviors and I don’t know what the function is we do tend as behavior streaming ready neutral because we are like we don’t know what this is for attention we’re still trying to figure out what it is so we don’t want to give it any attention because even if it is for like escape it can very quickly shift so more %HESITATION attention seeking opponents so just I I give you guys an encouragement to you know check in with the parents produced a very neutral because again she was also very like %HESITATION it can be very upsetting for the parents to look %HESITATION now all the eyes on me like I was just we were on this island now and now I got people from three aisles over time to see what’s going on like just do a very you know I think it’s good like you said to check in with you so neutral it is still present that parents dignity as well too and the child’s dignity to talk to that child doesn’t really need fifteen eyes on them so it’s stated when they’re having a moment like that’s really embarrassing for the child they may not recognize it but it is you know kind of taking away their %HESITATION their dignity yeah absolutely to treat them like you would want to be treated basically that’s the golden rule is a lot like a basic tenet of a lot of their life like maybe just start with that might be good right on all levels so with behavior for parents to know that it’s a process oh absolutely and to have patience because patience is needed with the behavior and also with yourselves we were talking about teaching moments and taking those teaching moments and then you know with the with Liam because I’ll admit the card thing because it’s so big can be so persistent and it had become something that slowly became part of his comfort unit one day I just sat with his cards and I sorted his cards and I did what he does and it was released to the media and and I would encourage our invite parents to do that like if there’s something that it because obviously it becomes something other than it is I think this is something that kids that your child’s doing to comfort himself but it becomes this thing inside of you like I don’t know about you but for me where have I failed what it might not doing what I might not providing %HESITATION just it will it will he do this for the rest of his life what will it mean how will people accept it just there so it’s such a laundry list and I just besides the patience and knowing it’s a process I I just sat down to see what what it was all about and I got some insight into why he likes it so much and it didn’t it doesn’t weigh so heavily on me now like you said for your example or like you went there and did the cars the like let’s say something that you know your child is physically doing with their body just like you said take a step back and really think about like what are they getting from this is something that I can give them a more functional replace them with our is is just again truly their way of expressing emotion and that this behavior last you know it’s kind of hard sometimes I’ll be honest like we don’t get too much into motions we are you know we are portrayed as a very you know strict by the book kind of people but I always think about like if this is an emotional outlet for that child I don’t want to take that away from them that’s the last thing I want to do like they like you again just being very transparent you they already have and not that they are working against in certain regards I don’t want to take something away from them that is giving them joy are giving them an outlet for you know how they feel like if they’re being aggressive than we absolutely need to address that but if this is the way for them to express and other emotion then let’s figure out a more appropriate way to do it if we can and then you know I’ve come across some parents that I like that’s just my trailblazing I’m happy and I don’t care who sees that so you know I think it kind of goes to the parents comfort level two and again I think to that and if you’re okay with that of the parent that’s your right and left the rest of the world just deal with it like if you if it’s something you want to dress up your behavior list and if it’s something you’re okay with move on with life and just have a good ride I kind of goes hand in hand with an epiphany I had a couple of episodes ago where we were talking about when Liam was a toddler he would stick his tongue out a fair amount and I was pretty persistent about anytime I saw it I put my finger on his tongue and say tongue in and kind of push his tongue in and we do it over and over in in the podcast episode I additionally told that story because I said I I just like I say to my kids say yes ma’am no ma’am turn the lights off just correcting right of what kind of activity I would like them to to hold on to them to fend for their for their future good manners that kind of stuff right but when it wasn’t what it didn’t really have anything to do with anything but his physical appearance and so I can have a look at myself and say why did I do that I did I do it really for the good of his maybe maybe speech we figured it could be it could help speech but the baseline was I was doing it because it was something that I believe was gonna embarrass me and so that was a correction I made an and so if I can look at myself that way as a lesson I’ll start to do that morning and see what it really is best if it is something that’s really give them joy let him do something do it a bit right and I appreciate your honesty bill %HESITATION yeah what you said and I think that every Sir Terence but I think that I think that as parents we there is so much guilt and there’s some that that comes along with the package and if we can just let go of that guilt and you know the good news with the tongue as it is better for a speech you know I can’t even put it in in in a place where I like you want your kid to be to have a clean hair cut and and dressed nice because how they present themselves it was kind of on that track but it was really more I didn’t want him to be stereotypical in my mind of of of someone that that wasn’t fully as much as they could be they weren’t at his potential yeah and I think that I think also that comes from a place and what we address here on the podcast is those fears that are ingrained in us from you know from go from even before go we have these these fears and so when you go into something you can’t come you’re not coming from a clean slate you’re just like oh no what are they what will people think and you know the goal is to get to that place where we don’t carry these fears that don’t belong to us we don’t carry the baggage that belongs to another time we don’t the goal is that M. and we can if we can get to that place to wear sticking out your tongue I mean every kid sticks out his tongue to carry that extra away M. baggage doesn’t help from even correcting and regulating the behaviors that need to be corrected and regulated it doesn’t help us and I think that’s the goal of this that’s our goal that’s where we want it come from is just to have the knowledge and then to to go forward and what the real moment is one minute rice is something that I got from that teacher way back when %HESITATION she still really good friend of mine I mean I’m not a parent but maybe this will speak to you as a parent but when you find out that you’re going to have a child of any kind you automatically start to plan out their life like that’s just something like that I given your like okay they’re going to go off and do this kind of stuff and they’re gonna play this sport because at this point the aptly and you have that total plan of your life and then you know some kind of delayed weather B. Thompson your autism comes then and now you have to completely re figure your life and that’s hard it’s very hard and I don’t think that people give special needs parents enough credit that they have to completely re adjust everything that they’ve learned a specially for you guys like you have an older child to that teacher she has she a two daughters that were when her son was born she had two dollars I were in high school that worry very athletically gifted very academically gifted to and now here is a sign that she does love very much but has this disability this delay and now she has to be like well what I did with those girls isn’t gonna work anymore because this is the new reality so just remember you to be very patient parents because you’re having to re learn a whole new system if you’d like you said and then won the first training that I ever went through at the agency that I have as a supervisor was an empathy training and it was and I always keep that in mind of like like you said Lori parents are sometimes like do I have to do this for ever I’ve done this intensive ABA for three years when is the end journey gonna be and we don’t know as behaviors we never stay by six years of age are gonna be fine we can’t make that determination because circumstances change and so to have that empathy that still still to you do you celebrate your child as well too but it’s also somewhat slow the grieving process of like %HESITATION I’ve done everything that they said to do I’ve got them and eighty I got them to speech therapy I got around this but I still have more to go and that’s a hard a realization I think for some parents to realize is that like you’re doing everything right but they’re still more that’s got to be done in so just trying to have that empathy for the parents of like because again I’m there as a supervisor maybe an hour or two a week but this is your reality this is your life like I am just like kind of dropping in as a visitor I guess at that time but when I leave that doesn’t mean that the challenging behaviour stop it doesn’t mean that the journey is over you guys are still dealing with that journey twenty four seven and so we as supervisors as being a realist need to be more empathetic and just realize like you know what this can’t really can’t participate though this day because they’re having a rough time that’s okay and there are and you guys as parents I’m gonna give you permission you’re allowed to have rough days it’s okay everyone under the sun has rough days don’t think that your worst parent by any stretch of imagination that I’m speaking to your listeners flooring parents you are okay to have that rough day well so what I’m hearing with empathy is for parents to have empathy for themselves yes M. patience for themselves and to just you know be present because things do change and I think it’s with anything really F. if we’re caught up in this is how I did it I mean I knew and I knew that no matter how I did it with Soviet wasn’t going to be the same with my second child and and it’s always going to be different with every human so not to have that it’s different again carried the weight any other weight than that it’s just different and and every and everything is is different so to just try trying to be present and what’s really and and th and Friday what what’s in there because if if we’re caught up and how it should be then we’re never going to be able to enjoy how it is and see those gifts and see that progress and I know we spent the first three years with so many services coming in and out of the house that there are times when I look back and I’ve and I felt like it was all that all the server that was my focus that was like doing this we gotta do it right we got to get it down we got to make sure this why isn’t this happening where is this milestone and if I could go back and I mean obviously all the services where such a gift but I think I would have breathed a little more maybe not maybe left mark a gap in between the services maybe left time for our family to just like and enjoy what just happen instead of feeling like it had to be this regimented there was a way that I needed to do it and I needed to do it right think there was a feeling of I needed to do it right yeah yes Sir for new parents that take take it easy on yourself know that this change is going to be B. R. life like any changes going to be any child or your life yeah it’s a marathon not a sprint into your point or a different does not always mean bad but I think that is the kind of conversation that %HESITATION this is different it’s not bad but that’s just the way that society things of %HESITATION it’s different that’s bad we don’t like that we want what everybody else has this is the gift that you guys have and you know some parents it’s a great journey into great gifts so enjoy it thank you and I think to your point it’s a lot of how you perceive it to so again parents like you said like enjoy that time like just take a step back and realize like okay I’m doing what I need to be doing and it’s like I said a marathon not a sprint behavior is so important because I feel it weighs heavy on a lot of parents %HESITATION can you tell us a little bit about behavior early intervention and what parents can look out for and the things they can do at home honestly trust your gut if you’ll see that your child is not walking I’m not communicating at a certain age there is no war personal world that’s going to criticize you for just going with your gut instinct I would like a medical opinion on this if your child themselves or daycare and they come to say all we know is that he’s not walking go ahead and get that checked out get it observe get a professional opinion so definitely like you said the earliest you can get that intervention and the batter because again if your child is primarily communicating via aggression and you just feel like this is fine and they’re six or seven we can work on that but then also in your child’s twelve and now you’re there still being aggressive with you you’re going against twelve years of that behavior being acceptable being taught that it’s OK any type that it will get you that communication that you want so again that earlier that you see a challenging you have here that you see those behaviors that you’re like I don’t think this is a good way to communicate or this is not okay down to get those opinions in there and don’t start that journey so talking about then tantrums are and then there’s the distance learning and the pandemic so I guess this is two different things I guess I guess tantrums we may have covered a little bit but with distance learning and the pandemic and I feel like sometimes things are so abstract it’s really hard to explain and addresses so when it comes to the whole distance learning and the pandemic do you have any advice as to how to discuss those or is it even necessary to discuss them with your child I think it is somewhat necessary because obviously you know using your child as an example to other children too they’re gonna know something about and so if you don’t address it with them then you’re kind of creating this %HESITATION atmosphere of mistrust like okay something’s different my mom and dad aren’t addressing it so I don’t feel like I can trust them so being as transparent that’s a big thing for me with all the kids I work with is trying to be as transparent as is appropriate now like you said your point I’ve hardly explain it when it is just like big what a quote terrifying bang unlike the pandemic and we can’t go outside and you have to do all this kind of stuff I think it’s breaking down to like what is the main message here that I’m trying to communicate to my child is that okay we can go outside why can’t we go outside because it’s not state because there’s a virus so just trying to break down what is the core message I want my child to get out of this and then with you really just laser focused on that then just tell your message around that and then let the conversation like we did tonight let the conversation flow if they have questions great if they’re just like got it we’re not going outside then you got easy conversation how they’re there to get the kids like this is great good so I think letting your child be quote unquote the director of that conversation like I’ve got something to tell you here’s what it is and then letting them kind of take the lead of like okay I have some questions are okay I’m good thanks for the update I’ll be in my room playing my Nintendo let me know when it’s safe I mean I go back outside and let me know when this is done that and that’s one of the points that you can then enjoy that actually you don’t have to break it down like well there’s this disease and we haven’t handled it well and we’re getting this vaccine but the vaccine maybe so your child like I got it we can go outside done I love that %HESITATION okay said there is a lot of concern with age appropriate behavior as I see a lot of concerns and sometimes the concern is with behavior you know that would never be questioned relaying a typical child like like in the Muppets or going to Disneyland or a favorite toy can you talk on that both the acceptance and then went to identify something or do you need to identify can they just just like they do like to just like somebody likes to pop their neck can they just like Disneyland can they just wear the shirt with the Muppet on it so the big thing that I try and identify areas %HESITATION how does this impact them in their environment so like you said if there’s if there’s something that they like and they’re able to move on from my like let’s say you know this child is fourteen years of age they still like to play with legos where all the other kids in the class are playing Fortnite or you know whatever else if the child was able to put the leg goes down and then go and track of their peers then that’s fine that they are taking that time to go play the legos but if that’s all they want to do then that’s what we would call a barrier to socialization and dots and we need to address it it’s okay again like you said if that some joy that if it’s a little child like I mean I’m thirty five years old were still on Disney movies that’s fine you know I love it and Robin Hood from nineteen seventy three is a classic I’ll say that out loud like I said I still watch law and order I still do all this kind of other stuff so it’s like what is it a bear arms it’s just something that’s like more of a hobby so first like I said I did not find that kind of stuff and then for me me how I can keep myself grounded you all share a little bit about my personal life here too is that %HESITATION I’m very have really actively involved in my church and I do like fourth grade Sunday school and I also work with the youth of the church and so they they don’t know what other kind of my litmus test of like %HESITATION other fourth graders are doing that is it okay if I see one of my clients doing that and that’s I do show that the parents of the like well our other kids in this yeah I work with the kids at my church in there just like I see second graders doing fine so find some way to to really evaluate not maybe like one or two kids a really a good sample size of like okay talk to your kids teachers like okay Johnny still into this and the teacher might really help all the kids are still in that it is like that’s okay so really just going to kind of your child’s teacher there %HESITATION whatever you might have been saying like you know I know is that he’s still into this or whatever is this okay the teacher might be like no they can’t read their stories because they’re too focused on this you know this one story that’s a barrier are they might be like yeah I’ve seen other kids do that it’s okay give yourself that validation parents to go and ask is this okay for my job %HESITATION this is again relief for you like your guys in sample okay in school if it’s prevented from accessing the curriculum that’s when it needs to be addressed and then at home if it’s preventing them from interacting with their siblings peers are doing daily living skills like they won’t go brush your teeth or take a shower because they’re just watching the Muppets for five hours on end that’s the problem we need to address that obviously yet to be a little easier on on on on the case too because I I understand that if it’s something that’s blocking something yes but I mean being from Louisiana I have hundreds of people I’ve known in my life that always when Ellis you had where Ellis you shirts teachers everywhere they have a room that’s completely decorated in purple and gold that’s they they they all they think about is is Ellis you and and certain part time V. as a barrier but it’s but it’s you know and we’ve gone to Disneyland as seen people that dress up as the characters and probably go once a week and and and have all the pins they collect but that’s just a hobby right so so when can you well you you have to value with that like you said when is it more than a hobby and that’s really when the concert on and you would call in like a behavioral Esther you would get a behavior list but let me let me just say let’s just say they play with legos let’s say your child plays with legos and you feel like they’re too but legos is something that adults play with all the time first of all so that you know but if you’re still judging that it is is it a barrier it meaning that that that behavior isn’t just I’m playing with legos but I’m going to eat drink and live lego that’s unhealthy like Stevens viewpoint and I think that’s a really good example I’ve seen it to those people doesn’t mean that had the PIM than are like so into it you’re not living at Disneyland are you because that’s a problem but if you’re leaving that environment to go do your work and you like I’ll be back in a week or two that’s okay but like you said Lori if it is an all consuming thing I’m not going to eat I’m not going to brush my teeth I’m not going to take care of my own personal style I’m not gonna interact with other people that’s again where you’re going to get that behavior was in here like they are what we call rigid and they’re very excited on that kind of stuff whether or not it’s age appropriate at that point is irrelevant because the bigger picture than is like if the bear for them to live their lives so what I’m hearing and you can correct me if I’m wrong is it’s not so much the judgment of what is age appropriate because that goes across the gamut of society as to the different %HESITATION likes and dislikes and hobbies but is it detrimental and creating a barrier again all consuming absolutely and that’s my first thing when parents are like well they kind of do this I’m like okay we can definitely address that but is it something that was really a bare ice it just something you don’t like and so then we kinda it’s not again a cop out but it’s like if we’re gonna dresses were gonna dress a very strategically and very intensively to so your child could be in for some really rough moments here like do you really want to fight this battle or is it just okay that you know right our day they go off to the room they play with legos %HESITATION okay I’m told okay with that and that’s honestly how we would address that you’d just to kind of take it further is that we would die stabber for the child it’s appropriate to do this for this amount of time but we’re not gonna do it for like you know the whole day like we gotta move on life still goes on you gotta eat you gotta go to school that kind of stuff right so is that when we would visit the eats the E. A. T. S. and then we would as parents revisit that that list of his escape attention tangible self stimulatory so it’s not just a hobby now it’s is it one of those and then we would just we would and could as parents start to try to address it and do replacement and those kind of things before we could if we didn’t have a behaviour us right at hand and then obviously if it’s something that we saw that then we had to go through this whole process to get a behavior lest these are some things that we could some sign some signs in some some supports and tools that we have I’m gonna tell you right now if they’re doing it for that long of a time it’s probably honestly still signatory again so signatory presented a number of ways again it’s just something that they do because they if they enjoy it it feels good to them so yeah you would definitely go through that checklist nine times out of ten it’s gonna say self inventory and then you’re gonna be like okay Johnny again you can do your leg goes from three to three thirty but then at three thirty work done we’re gonna go move on and then you can even offer it as like a reinforcement like if you can do your homework if you can brush your teeth and that’s the last time you earn more lego time so again reinforcing the child to do it you know that they love the legos we don’t do like they really like legos and at the farm is the bear were never allowed to play like %HESITATION to get axed I see parents do them like no no hotel first like you have to have you around now you’ve deprived at times and that’s motivating for them and now the child is just like going to seek that out constantly use it as a reward maybe when we if they reinforce our yeah we at that time is also required like Alec reinforcement I think everyone is good so with the behavior and and you know you’re you seek other peers and and see what something that is this something that the peers do correct you know a little bit about behavior in school because our personal experiences sometimes lamb is held to a different bar and behavior than his peers like some things that his peers participate and he would get in trouble for doing so there is the double standard of you you know Liam has down syndrome and has he has the supports but he’s not allowed to make the same mistakes or have that same learning curve as a typical child yeah you know a good example of that I think was last year I remember him taking his finger and his was probably something that had had some dried skin on his finger he pulled and it it bled well it was reassuring when the when the the B. I said %HESITATION I actually did that two weeks ago you know it’s just it’s dry out and I just picked it in but it could have been can’t become something else where you go oh wait is this is the sum we have an address but also no I’m I’m talking about when we went to his school to do a birthday celebration and I’m you know kids have a little baby in energy and they’re allowed to run around so they’re just running around and they’re being kids but Liam when he sat down at the table it is it like he was so %HESITATION properly he was really low because he’s he’s held to a different bar and there’s different he experiences consequence and responsibility which is this you want that to create the positive behaviors but then sometimes I feel a little bad that if you ran out screaming and ran to the the playground and and and did some something like scream dedicated inside the Playhouse it would be looked at it would be viewed differently he be non compliant he did not that’s why and that’s the vocabulary of transitioning to a Hey I mean there’d be there’d be so it would be written down there’d be so many things can you speak to parents because I know other parents probably experience that that their kids don’t have the same luxury luxury of behaving like religious kid a kid I think that’s a very good way to describe it is they don’t have that luxury and that you know I like I said before going to a be a I was a teacher and I you know I do see that sometimes you know owning my own bias that yeah those kids that do you have the supports they are held to a different standard whether it be a good standard are bad standard it’s not fair it’s not healthy the child and I’ll speak to I’m kind of like you said earlier like stereotypical behaviors I had a client in the school system I’m trying to remember exactly his age was like oh he’s getting really excited and like he’s having a good time in like is that a problem but I do I need it doesn’t like well why is he getting excited like what he wants why he did what he wanted kickball well then let them celebrate that like why would we not want to let them celebrate that like again not going to put myself on a pedestal here but it really comes to behavior a list here of like let kids be kids like yes these children have delays they have challenges you know those kids that are getting aggressive and running of the room those are the only things that need to be addressed but if there are like you said at that birthday party let the kids run around have a good time like that what’s what’s the harm in allowing that like there is no I’m at that point really especially if you know I’ve been a teacher and I’ve had kids come in with birthday parties and it’s all mania and chaos on deck and then with that so why should that one shot that does need more support not be allowed to enjoy like everybody else again I think it goes to your noggin depriving that shot of something that is okay for them to access to for them to enjoy like again I really couldn’t do that why would we not want him to express himself in a fun way to well you can go ahead and put yourself on a pedestal crowd because you can’t hazard because we have put you on a pedestal yeah we we think very highly of your expertise and also just your supports in the way that you’ve always seen seen lamb pushing him and supporting him to his potential and that’s really what we’d want for every family is to have that kind of a team and support system and communication with their behavior a list that sees your your child the way you see your child or even better receive that potential and helping pull you into you know the the light of what they’re at their potential is and out of the fears that don’t belong to us %HESITATION so that’s what we wish for every parent is for them to it to have to have the kind of support that that we have with you I have always felt that the behavior list is that cornerstone of the team yeah and that could also be because you’re you we work with you but that’s how we built our team was around around you and I would say that goes back to like you said earlier Laurie the communication like it really does come down to having that open communication and you know like you said I am there to support them in school but it’s really like higher support your vision of them in school like what okay because we’ve talked at this I. P. these are the goals that we want to have this is how I’d be able to address them but really is that something that the parents will carry on at home because why would I devised a system that the parents aren’t okay with R. B. is very diametrically opposed to what the parents are doing at home then the child is gonna have one system at school once is that a home service goes to be an open and honest communication and really getting to understand each other M. parents encourage you to to do that like if you had that this is the team that you’re creating and know that you’re creating it for your child so whether it be in home services you have the right to keep going until the pieces of the puzzle fit and if you’re going into school and you’re looking for an I. E. P. you’re going into your I. E. P. whether it be your first one because your child three years old and entering preschool or into a different grade or at a different milestone knows that you have now you have a little more knowledge as to what the the words mean and what the services are and if you follow your gut and everybody’s got to gonna do serve them so like what was good for us isn’t necessarily good for the next person but but do what you feel is right not only for your child but for your family and for the entire team that you’re creating because it’s a sporting and it’s and it’s a big part behavior is a big part of of your life in and you want someone who’s also going to do to do that not you every once in awhile and shine a light and say Hey this is just everybody has behaviors everybody has moments everybody has this so find that is find someone who has empathy and have that same empathy for yourself and for your process and journey you will this is the if we knew then podcast and we always think if we knew then what we do differently so can I pose you that question and see if you had an if we knew then statement and you might be you know all right bye yeah I don’t you know you might have if you knew then like when you first started or something that changed for you or or you know how has it changed how long have you been doing this Kyle like I said so in the education realm I’ve been doing this since I was eighteen like when I was in college I was a substitute teacher and I come home on the winter breaks my mom worked in the district so a lot of teachers knew me so I’ve been in education well isn’t that eighteen nineteen years old but in this problem of behavior all since about the year two thousand and fifteen so about five six years here so if I knew then what I know now I would definitely realize that the child’s potential is really a limitless like it really does depend not really on them but the environment they are brought into and if you have a really supportive environment like you guys do and I will say that and it seems that really excuse you know the child out of focus that child will exceed whatever the circumstances are and you know I guess I’m not going to get to %HESITATION forthcoming but you guys have a huge team like I think from any client that I work with your child’s team is by far the biggest one that I’ve ever worked with and I think we’re we can be honored to recognize that we’re not always going to get along but if we keep the goals mindful of like supporting the client and their child and that’s what we’re all here forward that’s what brought us to this table is out we love children we want to see them grow we want to see them reach their full potential so again always keeping the child as the center focus has never served me wrong it is always gotten me to where I want my goal is to be in to get that parent buying when the like I don’t know about that goal and then I always say what’s going to help your child really become the truest version of themselves and really reach their potential we try it my way yes I am I am I do recall one time when I became a product of the system that I had been up against and something and you had to talk me down because I was like no this is what is this because your change something and I remember it I think it was that one of the first times where when I remembered that I could I had created such eight distrust you know and especially with school we have conversations and we have episodes about IEPs because of some of the the fights that I had I had been put into an N. what and I had participated in because I’m I’m fighting for my child and sometimes that can create this the foundation is it’s a translation of distrust where were you learn that you stop you say no like I I just I don’t like that this is a sponsored spouting off like laws yeah right engine three oh four in the and no and email it to Attorney well this is a different side but I understand now where you guys are coming from and it was just again there was a communication breakdown I hope you guys remember the conversation right there wasn’t anything that I was not trying to do it was just I wasn’t aware and so I had to educate myself on and then you know well actually it wasn’t something that you had done it all I was completely wrong about a situation and I’m I can always admit when I’m wrong I was completely wrong you had mentioned something in and it looked like it looked on the verge of okay a lot like a conversation that was something that we had fought for for a long time and I reacted and maybe it’s because your behavior list you know you let me talk but that I think it was that was the turning point that was when I realized that my team is my team and and Liam’s team is Liam’s team and to not just see everyone as the same person or the person who might cause challenge because if you have a good team they’re going to be there to support your child just even what you said about your if you knew then about reaching potential I think that that’s why we appreciate you so much and you’re and you’re such a gift and you have been so generous with your time tonight we appreciate you and a professional level on a personal level we thank you for being on the show you’re very welcome and I will say to you if I get on my soapbox for minute APA has been around for quite some time but it didn’t always have a positive image to early A. B. A. was very much like we’re gonna sit at the table do this work and you know like it was very punishment driven as well too right now %HESITATION in this new generation it is more like how do we support how do we get that natural growth to Stokes thank you for allowing me to kind of you know from my point of view dispels some of what the rumors are about what behavior list is like we’re not gonna make your child to the table for five hours at a time we’re not gonna tell them no all the time that’s not what we do that’s what people used to DO to be fair like that is what it started out as but now we’ve grown so much for that so I don’t think you guys for a line to use this to further that message do you have any recommendations of books or resources or %HESITATION places that parents can look I know that Nikki makori was on did the first episode in the series and she mentioned the website yet and that people could put questions there as well does that go for behavior as well they could reach back to the McRae website they could definitely respectful McCoy website %HESITATION a book that I read that I would recommend is the reason I jump the inner voice of a thirteen year old boy with autism and so this is a really great book that I read and it is the entire journey of a thirteen year old boy from Japan with an autism diagnosis and really explaining why he does the things that he does and I love that book and I because again like I said your child may not always be able to vocalize why they’re gonna think that use of this book may be a great resource are you here to do that like to get that understanding and then I don’t know if it’s kind of cheesy now but a great social media resource ideas because she does because resources it’s an Instagram account called %HESITATION life with grace and Parker I don’t know if you got the part of it it’s a mom she’s a here California she has two children both on the autism spectrum and she is constantly a great advocate for her child for her children she’s always talking about %HESITATION her oldest son uses an AC on iPad device to communicate and so she’s always posting tips on how to work with that to deal with the get her children do engage in some of those stereotypical behaviors they do a BA and she’s very transparent honest about you said the journey of a parent’s point of year because again I think and it’s not a bad thing but so much of the focus is on the child but the really you gotta look at the parents and the siblings to like if you can get your kid into a one resource I would recommend it if you can get your child sibling into some kind of workshop that allows them to feel are they going to process that you that’s really helpful like that’s something that we make for you mention the names like emergency immigrate does do step shops so yeah %HESITATION in the end so much of the focus on child naturally and rightfully so but I think that leads to some resentment sometimes with the siblings of like %HESITATION the parents are always focused on my brother like they have some feelings to about this kind of thing and I think if you’re really looking at the whole family and like their voice needs to be heard you on this journey yeah well thank you so much for your time let’s see Leo %HESITATION wait lets him hold on Hey I’m so tall how all we are and you need are you happy yes I like your Star Wars shirt that’s really cool yeah that was it is so what’s yes yes yeah hi hi yeah done I’m much much better now that I got to see you buddy it’s really good to see you yes make him added by by

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